Episode 1: The Next Generation of Equine Practice

00:00:01: Every equine veterinarian can point to someone who shaped the way they practice, Someone who encouraged them believed in them or challenged The way.

00:00:08: They thought about medicine.

00:00:10: today three vets from Three different stages of that journey come together To ask what should the next generation inherit and What Should they leave behind?

00:00:21: This is right along with unbridled access podcast where equine Medicine gets the conversation it deserves.

00:00:27: I'm dr.

00:00:28: Joe Lyman.

00:00:29: I'm an equine veterinarian and director of professional services at Beringer-Ingelheim.

00:00:33: I've dedicated my career to caring for horses, working alongside passionate veterinarians in helping translate science into better care.

00:00:41: Today i have the privilege connecting with some best equine practitioners across the country And one thing has become clear The best ideas on our profession don't come from working alone.

00:00:52: They comes form conversations.

00:00:53: we had Every episode.

00:00:56: you'll hear from leading voices across equine medicine as we explore the emerging research and real-world experiences shaping our profession.

00:01:04: Let's explore cases, science & questions that keep equine veterinarians up at night!

00:01:11: Today were joined by two guests who see a future of equine medicines different but very complementary perspectives.

00:01:18: Dr.

00:01:18: Sarah Roos has dedicated her career to advancing equine medication and now president of the American Association of Equine Practitioners.

00:01:28: She has a unique view on challenges, opportunities shaping her profession today.

00:01:33: Joining her is Dr Craig Lesser, equine podiatrist in future board member for the American association of equine practitioners.

00:01:40: through his work mentoring veterinary students and early career practitioners, Craig as front row seat to next generation of equines veterinarians.

00:01:50: Let's talk about the future of equined medicine.

00:01:53: Will AI change way we practice?

00:01:55: Will the next generation reshape our profession?

00:01:58: And when we look back ten years from now, what will we wish we had started doing today.

00:02:03: Welcome to Ride Along with Unbridled Access!

00:02:07: So I was hoping a day before we got into everything that's different about generations or new veterinarians.

00:02:14: Do either of you feel like there is anything that unites all of the generations of veterinarian together?

00:02:20: I think thats pretty easy answer.

00:02:22: its the horse for us but he wouldn't do do if we didn't love working for and with the horses?

00:02:30: I absolutely would agree.

00:02:32: With that statement,

00:02:33: i think at the end of day everybody gets into the profession for the same reason And I loved that.

00:02:39: you just said it's the horse.

00:02:41: uh...I think We can all agree.

00:02:43: Nobody decided to become an equine vet because It was The best way To make a buck.

00:02:46: right?

00:02:47: You hear All this narrative.

00:02:48: How you know the pace Of change is increasing.

00:02:52: Do you

00:02:52: Think the pace of Change Actually Is Increasing or this change just always changed.

00:03:01: I think it's always changed but If you stick if you keep up with the change, It's not overwhelming so You know?

00:03:08: I think both Sarah and i spent a lot of time going to CE meetings talking to colleagues And Always trying To better ourselves like So many Of our Colleagues do and That that slows down The Change in my mind and Makes it you Know More palatable.

00:03:24: Agreed I mean life has changed, right?

00:03:26: But if you think about practice in a not very long period it went from tube deworming horses to paste dewormers.

00:03:34: There was no such thing as ultrasound or ultrasound is quite rudimentary what we have now.

00:03:41: but yet change's always been there and will continue to be there.

00:03:45: And yeah like Greg said its absolutely just up us to continue to curious

00:03:54: interaction between new veterinarians and established veterinarians, has that changed over time or is it the same today as its always been?

00:04:02: I think that...it's kind of the same than It's Always Been.

00:04:06: There there was a written history Highly recommended reading certainly for any of us in AP leadership roles, but I think it is actually really interesting to look at.

00:04:17: yeah Certainly the founding of they pee back in the fifties Honestly were some of the same issues we have now.

00:04:23: so It was.

00:04:23: you know how to make sure that the veterinarians voice was included and decisions.

00:04:27: You know surrounding racing and surrounding other.

00:04:29: you know regulatory.

00:04:31: So if you go back kind of the origins of our profession change has always been part of it?

00:04:36: you Know ii think That Every generation thinks that the next generation isn't as good is them.

00:04:44: Um, I vividly remember one of my mentors complaining about millennials when i was in my fellowship and it turned out like hey you know im a millennial.

00:04:55: well your not.

00:04:55: on those millenials.

00:04:58: we all kind are the same were generations.

00:05:04: millennial generation starts getting into that.

00:05:06: I think when you check yourself and realize now we're doing what the generation before us may have done, maybe there is something else going on?

00:05:15: It's funny to actually look back.

00:05:17: even like Aristotle had quotes complaining about previous generations!

00:05:23: That has always been a thing.

00:05:24: it not just complain about millennials or traditionalists made fun of boomers...it literally goes hundreds of years that every generation, you know thinks the... I don't want to say things they're best but maybe think it's their best.

00:05:42: But complains about those before and after them.

00:05:44: so complain about older generations or newer generations.

00:05:47: It is human nature.

00:05:49: Yeah i love that you bring that up!

00:05:51: I've talked with some people before.

00:05:52: there are ancient texts talking about youth.

00:05:55: today all they wanna do sit around listen poetry.

00:06:01: Is that what you millennials are doing, Craig?

00:06:04: Poetry.

00:06:05: Yes!

00:06:05: That's one I'm known for is my poetry.

00:06:08: So, Craig...I think

00:06:11: you

00:06:11: have kind of an interesting perspective.

00:06:13: and why we're really excited to have you on the show today?

00:06:17: because You've got a lens that covers an awful wide berth from a veterinary medicine.

00:06:24: Can you kinda tell us your story in why you might Have it interesting perspective?

00:06:29: Yeah, I'm a veterinarian because i have no other marketable skills in life.

00:06:34: My mom and dad were both equine veterinarians.

00:06:36: my mom was one of the first female equine vets graduate from Cornell.

00:06:41: um...I had pretty big shoes that im still trying to fill but it's..it was fun.

00:06:46: you know we grew up at The Veterinary Clinic.

00:06:48: It was fun ridein' the cars You Know?

00:06:51: My parents would pick us up form school And We'd go to work with them And they figured out how to run their own practice, and a very successful practice at that while raising three children.

00:07:03: For me it was the best way to grow up.

00:07:04: I had friends across.

00:07:06: you know there entire practice area we get go visit.

00:07:09: My mom always has some dogs in car with her so she'd open-up door Me & The Dogs would jump out and play on the pond.

00:07:16: And we've all come running up cover to mud and get in the truck, go into next call.

00:07:21: Maybe this is worst case of nepotism ever but I like think it as no other marketable skills than life.

00:07:29: It's just been a great career not only for me grow-up now.

00:07:33: But

00:07:35: what about looking towards generation events?

00:07:37: Is there anything that gives you unique opportunity?

00:07:42: One of my passion projects now is I've got to bring back opportunities in equine practice seminar And we are, i believe on our fourth year back this year and We will bring three hundred approximately third-year veterinary students uh two central Kentucky.

00:07:58: And Uh we're gonna have a weekend just getting them excited about equine Practice.

00:08:03: you know they They're given a lot of obstacles.

00:08:06: so the entry event equine practices kind of told.

00:08:09: maybe it's not the best track for a lot of them.

00:08:12: So, its our opportunity for practitioners to come together and really get students excited because I couldn't see myself doing anything else And i want other people share that joy.

00:08:25: The coolest part is industry sponsors and practitioners are putting this together.

00:08:31: It's like one individual or practice.

00:08:34: Its an entire industry coming together.

00:08:38: This is where I always have to give Craig a shout out and he gets all embarrassed about it.

00:08:43: So, i was one of the first attendees of OAPS in two thousand three um...I still have very vivid recollection that there's an uh..i came into knowing i wanted to equine practice but It Was Very Affirmative To Find Like-Minded People.

00:08:57: They're like yeah this Is A Ballad Career Path.

00:08:59: so OAPs Existed And Then It Went Away In.

00:09:01: I Think Ofs Two Thousand

00:09:03: Ten.

00:09:03: Yeah The Year I Was Supposed To Go One Way Exactly!

00:09:05: So Craig Has Tons ton of work to bring back a program that he actually never got, have the joy just being participant in and having fun part on it.

00:09:16: He's taken on the work part off.

00:09:18: I think that says about Craig as person but then took project on has been fantastically successful since bringing it back.

00:09:27: so good job buddy!

00:09:28: And I'm glad this is podcast you can see already.

00:09:30: thanks

00:09:31: exactly.

00:09:33: I do this in person every year at OAPS too, and he does get very

00:09:35: red.

00:09:36: But it is like... It's really cool to put that much work into something you didn't personally get partake of so-

00:09:42: Yeah but for me its one of the simplest things as i got a call from Dr Practices across the United States & Canada And these are friends I meet at AAP.

00:09:53: These people were maybe classmates our small industry even smaller.

00:09:59: And, you know it also welcomes in the next generation and they get to see practices that are competitors standing in this same room together having fun teaching them just really enjoying themselves.

00:10:12: so its honestly I think i'd be more out of than anybody else does.

00:10:16: It's a really fun weekend um...and is good to see how excited students get an-I think it making uh difference.

00:10:25: I think it's absolutely making a difference.

00:10:28: So when we look at all of these students who are coming together and obviously excited about the opportunities that they have, what are we hearing from them?

00:10:37: About their expectations for practice?

00:10:41: where do they think The industry is headed?

00:10:43: What's bringing them in?

00:10:45: you know i think We've had a really good kind of resurgence, I think in student interest and equine practice.

00:10:51: And I think what we hear from them are few different things.

00:10:55: you know there seems to be at that point in time a decent amount of interest in more mixed-practice.

00:11:02: maybe some is just.

00:11:03: they're early enough for their career but don't feel totally ready to commit.

00:11:06: But...I love it!

00:11:08: They were keeping the options open.

00:11:11: one thing trying get across You don't have to do horses all the time, you know.

00:11:17: A hundred percent of your practice every day just still be a horse vet and it's useful for industry into us.

00:11:24: so I like that open-mindedness kind of willingness.

00:11:28: well

00:11:28: i think one thing is barrier we're trying break down as students feel nervous approaching older veterinarians unfortunately falling in older veterinarian now.

00:11:39: but when i graduated dr roose was terrifying.

00:11:44: I've never been terrifying a day in my

00:11:47: life.

00:11:47: You're definitely still that one, but... But you know it's something i'd really encourage them to do.

00:11:53: and once they realize They can go up And talk with these big name people and their excited To talk to them It is so much more inviting.

00:12:03: That first step sometimes Is A really Big One Especially because a lot of veterinarians are Busy think that they need to come over and talk to you.

00:12:13: But if your, If you appropriately approach a Equine Veterinarian... Man!

00:12:20: They love sharing stories.

00:12:21: You know?

00:12:23: Equine veterinarians are storytellers.They-they're adventurers.

00:12:26: They enjoy people.

00:12:28: What do the coming with expectations from their profession?

00:12:33: That might have been different than the expectations you had for the professional when you joined.

00:12:38: I Think the biggest thing for me is there coming in without student debt And honestly, I don't think we have that one figured out completely yet.

00:13:08: Then the other thing is, you know The work-life balance.

00:13:10: Work life integration Whatever we're calling this nonsense anymore But it's real.

00:13:15: You Know It Is Truly Important That You Have A Life Outside Of Work.

00:13:20: I Took a little while to figure that one out.

00:13:22: Thankfully i have a wife that Plans vacations and We go on Vacations Whether or Not Im Ready To Leave Town And I Have A Great Time And Its What I Need.

00:13:33: Even In Central Kentucky A Lot of Clients Aren't Used your veterinarian leaving town, but my clients have noticed that when I leave town after a stressful season and come back refreshed a week later.

00:13:47: A better veterinarian more attentive to their

00:13:49: horses.".

00:13:50: And i think the next generation...I think they're gonna do so much better job educating client's standing up for themselves because it took me good five one of my eleven years actually start doing that!

00:14:06: Yeah, I agree.

00:14:08: They get a bad rap for wanton again whether we're calling it balance but having more circumspect work hours.

00:14:15: And I think a couple of things there, like one if we just look at what happens when they're students now.

00:14:20: They have enforced work hours and that's not a bad thing you know?

00:14:24: I think about some of the times that i worked some fairly ridiculous hours and drove home and I got home and was like...I don't know how I just drove here!

00:14:33: That is not safe, it isn't healthy.

00:14:36: so in educational systems those are being reinforced what they're used to.

00:14:44: So then when they come out, you know if we kind of pull a total one eighty on them... We can't be surprised that there are not okay with it!

00:14:52: I don't think most veterinarians or even aware of the change has happened in schools around the country.

00:14:58: Can You talk about the enforced work hours?

00:15:02: Yeah and so this honestly stemmed from human medicine.

00:15:06: but in Human Medicine There are very enforced work hours for students, interns residents and you know physicians in general.

00:15:16: Again recognizing that medical errors go up burnout goes up all of these things go up when you don't have enforced work-hours.

00:15:23: But I do think it's important to recognize the student who is being trained today.

00:15:29: They don't view that as a choice or is something they're doing to seek balance.

00:15:36: That's the standard of practice, how veterinary medicine should be.

00:15:40: Correct because at school level if it doesn't happen there are actually negative consequences in terms...that school can get into trouble for keeping students beyond theirs.

00:15:50: Exactly!

00:15:50: It isn't like it was a choice at all and truly rule.

00:15:55: Yeah, and it doesn't mean they're gonna be less productive.

00:15:57: We have friends that switched to four days a week recently And their production went up which just kind of blows your mind if wow I was working an extra day To lose money.

00:16:07: So you know the just because you're learning efficiencies?

00:16:10: Because you you plan your calls little bit better.

00:16:13: yeah i think we accepted all sorts of inefficiency in our practices Under the guise of that's what the grind is supposed to look like.

00:16:22: That's What hard work Is.

00:16:25: And so, I think part of that change we're seeing is introduction to efficiency in the desire to seek work-life balance.

00:16:33: Not because it's a choice they are making and don't want them working or anything like that but simply if you can do this efficiently then our practice also grows while being able enjoy some other things out life too.

00:16:50: Work smarter not harder!

00:16:54: And this is a gross generalization, but I feel like every practice that i have talked to.

00:16:58: That has gone into a four-day work week Has improved profitability Like it's not an outlier and that's A fairly typical thing.

00:17:09: yeah you're just more efficient.

00:17:12: Yeah think thats surprising.

00:17:13: we've heard at time again But Every practice that ive heard from has said that their productivity does not go down when they go to that four-day work week.

00:17:24: And many of them have not even increased their hours on the four days that they're working, uh... That's a pretty profound change

00:17:31: and I do think we talked earlier about growth in change.

00:17:36: technology love it or hate let's be honest.

00:17:39: I'm old so i am still reluctant to use AI and what not.

00:17:43: In terms of artificial intelligence, by no means an expert but just fortunate sit in on a lot these conversations people talking about various ways that they used it.

00:17:51: you know there is everything from obviously essentially listening devices can honestly If it's compliant with your state regulations, you know like listening to your entire exam and transcribing medical documentation of that exam giving bullet points or recommendations all at the end.

00:18:16: if you're not necessarily doing that, even something that you can dictate in your truck and between so it is also then generating a medical record.

00:18:25: That often again could be programmed to figure out billing purposes, what you dispensed all of those sorts.

00:18:34: things are going to just be some kind more practice efficiencies.

00:18:40: Obviously there's AI that is being used for gate analysis and increasing use of AI to look at digital x-rays, cytology so lots different ways out there.

00:18:53: again I think it will continue change.

00:18:56: You know, I think the first thing you talked about was a lot of your practice management stuff and historically veterinarians underutilized their practice management software.

00:19:05: And there's a whole bunch of really nice new software out there specifically for recline practice that integrates AI.

00:19:12: That i-i think we need to start exploring more because if they're writing our medical records or helping us with billing That's going to get us homework, sir.

00:19:21: It's gonna allow see another horse.

00:19:22: it's an allowed just to improve that work life balance uh...that we also keep talking about.

00:19:30: I personally use AI um.. kind of when i'm stumped with emails a lot.

00:19:35: To be honest you know if are angry at a client because they didn't do something right and you write your first email down.

00:19:43: And normally I would come back, read it in the morning and send out again.

00:19:46: but AI can help you kind of organize some of your thoughts and really be able to put out a really cohesive message to clients.

00:19:58: But i also think its important remember that's tool.

00:20:01: one my biggest worries with AI is we're going rely on too heavily and we're not going to be as good of practitioners, because there's so much out there that we need to learn it individuals.

00:20:14: And AI should be used.

00:20:15: help us learn it.

00:20:16: but you know I think its something i struggle with.

00:20:20: is you diagnose imaging should never surprise me.

00:20:26: my exam should have been that it helps me.

00:20:29: It improves my diagnosis, it helps with

00:20:32: prognosis.".

00:20:33: I think the next big thing is AI should be doing those things.

00:20:37: Should improve my prognoses, should help my exam and just make a better veterinarian.

00:20:42: but try not to let your BU as a veterinarian?

00:20:46: Oh yeah absolutely no.

00:20:47: i'm glad you reiterated because for sure never replace good physical exam the things that we gain by just putting, you know hands and ears.

00:20:58: And what not on horses?

00:20:59: But but certainly

00:21:00: can put your ears on horses.

00:21:02: in my stethoscope I mean You can also do a little blot meant let's We Can Go Old School

00:21:16: New tech of the Stethoscope.

00:21:18: I love what you said about the management software and how underutilized it is, because same as true of AI even today.

00:21:28: I'm pretty certain none of us went to veterinary school because we loved doing medical records.

00:21:33: Dr.

00:21:33: Lesser, You mentioned some coming technologies that your excited about?

00:21:38: That do think are going change their profession?

00:21:41: Any specifics anything really excited about seeing?

00:21:45: One of the imaging companies has a new.

00:21:49: I believe it's a CT machine that they're coming out with.

00:21:53: That's going to be portable.

00:21:56: So there some newer technology like that, that's coming out But i think is just gonna make our jobs easier.

00:22:03: you know A lot of the technologies getting cheaper too so we Just have better access to it.

00:22:08: You Know if you Think about you know ct machines and MRIs And you know so many practices Have them now versus when i first graduated It wasn't every practice that had it, you know.

00:22:21: Not all referral hospitals could have a MRI and its pretty commonplace.

00:22:26: now

00:22:27: We just did huge project with NAP on putting wearables on racing two-year olds or training again showing huge potential for detection of injury before we have catastrophic breakdowns.

00:22:43: I mean even the effects obviously on individual horses.

00:22:46: you know, sport horses race horses all of the above to figure out some of their performance related issues from an individual standpoint.

00:22:54: Yeah I think biometrics is going be really interesting moving forward not just in the racing profession or other performance disciplines but uh...in the ability for a horse to report itself as collicking and middle-of-the night without any other observation.

00:23:07: yeah there's AI cameras.

00:23:09: now that people are using full watch.

00:23:12: it's pretty incredible.

00:23:14: does change practice though if During the hours where you didn't expect the horse to be observed.

00:23:19: You might sleep a little more easily.

00:23:22: I think it comes into client training though.

00:23:24: Yeah, I truly think he does because hopefully this technology will also Calm some of those clients as well, you know yeah It was my first colic.

00:23:33: i remember i was so nervous To go too and i was talking to My dad about that.

00:23:38: she goes you Know The hardest part About getting to your First colic Is Getting There Before They Stop Colicking.

00:23:46: So some of those milder things, hopefully AI will stop us from having to see because they're going to have solutions available before it reaches the point that they need our care.

00:23:58: Yeah more mild things get picked up much sooner and then we can address them during normal daytime hours but their picked-up before they become either catastrophic or just more significant to that animal's actual well-being.

00:24:13: So there are so many, you know kind of things now within practice that hopefully will also increase those efficiencies.

00:24:20: Yeah Dr Roos and I were at a meeting this weekend.

00:24:22: it led to really interesting conversation.

00:24:25: i think that idea that You're only being productive when your hands on horse is another thing That we're starting to see change little

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00:25:18: So you brought up that topic of debt load but do think the next generation of veterinarians is carrying some implications?

00:25:29: How much they want to earn or how much do you wanna work?

00:25:32: Yeah, it definitely does.

00:25:34: I've known people who have not bought into their practice as owners because they were worried about the debt even though ownership would cash flow.

00:25:43: so it paralyzes people and i've seen a lot of students Not be willing take some risks Because there's So much dead homing over their heads.

00:25:56: That's why they chose to go to small animal because they had a consistent salary.

00:26:01: They got a bonus to start with.

00:26:03: there are bunch of really nice things that drew them in the direction, may not have been exactly what they wanted to do.

00:26:11: but it was financially better option for

00:26:16: kind of rationalize because Dr.

00:26:18: Roos and I have talked about this before.

00:26:20: but the data is actually showing a small increase happening, sudden inflection point in ownership especially in younger veterinarians and single doctor practices.

00:26:31: so they're still carrying the same debt load if not higher than it was five years ago.

00:26:37: what's driving that change?

00:26:39: That's a good question.

00:26:40: At least sixty percent of our members are part one and two doctor practices, so that number hasn't necessarily changed a ton.

00:26:50: but somewhat anecdotally we're hearing about more young to early mid-career, so maybe not in the first two to three years but kind of at that tennis year mark.

00:27:04: That are going out on their own and you know is some of that financial?

00:27:08: when we look what numbers do have out there all of them support.

00:27:13: being a practice owner does improve your take home pay end of day ,end of the year or career.

00:27:22: I think some messaging.

00:27:24: So I think there's kind of a lot different ways to look at some those numbers and maybe what is motivating.

00:27:32: Some that change over time.

00:27:35: There are lots fear around all the business processes, but technology actually helping them with something like this so they can automate things from getting into ownership Sort of the social impact a veterinary medicine that is very important to That next group of veterinarians and so they want to have control Of how they practice what they do with their practice.

00:28:06: And maximizing profits isn't always they are most interested in from their practice.

00:28:12: I also think that it's just so much easier for us all to stay interconnected now, It is easier to go off on your own and not feel like you're on the island.

00:28:21: whether its group emergency coverage or if you do an internship with those contacts then reach back out to them.

00:28:29: You have intern mates and classmates who can reach out too.

00:28:34: Its much easier be part of a group even if you're a solo practitioner, then it used to be.

00:28:41: Yeah I think that's a great point Craig as like emergency co-ops are just so much more accepted and people know about them in our kind of looking for them.

00:28:52: but yeah the days have been like well If i went out on my own than all sudden im gonna be twenty four seven three sixty five Like That doesn't seem to necessarily Be As Much Of A Barrier.

00:29:01: When I came Out ,if had a question I Had To God Forbid Call Somebody And Ask The Question which meant I limited myself to about one of those a week, right?

00:29:11: Because otherwise you were a nuisance.

00:29:14: But now it's totally normal to have all-day intermittent text communication with an entire peer group of veterinarians all around the country and that allows them to feel comfortable in securing some of the decisions they're making And i think does open up some opportunities To go out on your own a little earlier is being driven really by communication technology and sort of the norms of communication now.

00:29:40: But I don't know that anyone would have seen individual practice as related to communications...

00:29:46: I mean, i'm not gonna call you old Joe but i'll call ya old for a minute even if they're only couple years older than me!

00:29:51: Think about like the days when your radiographs went back.

00:29:56: You had get in dark room process them look at yourself then call someone versus.

00:30:02: now you've got DR And if an image comes up that you're like, I don't really know what i think about this.

00:30:07: Image You can immediately share That image with fifty friends.

00:30:13: So yeah just that true instant not Just to you Know being able To you know Share ideas but even share images pictures videos

00:30:20: and Not only is it good for you as a veterinarian But your clients actually love them The fact they say hey This Is A weird spot?

00:30:28: I've not seen before.

00:30:29: let me send It to somebody who this is What They do And I text a colleague who does little bit more of that, and you know?

00:30:36: That...I get an answer.

00:30:38: Oh this is no big deal!

00:30:39: This what we can do blah-blah-blAH.

00:30:42: Then come back to clients say hey not only did i give my care but elevated the care To somebody knows even more than I do..and think The generations before me was terrifying because You're worried about bringing someone else in.

00:30:56: They are smarter then they will do better job and switch over as veterinarian.

00:31:01: Now the client's like, no this person is going to find me.

00:31:03: The information I need and solve my problems even if they have to reach out somebody else who knows a little bit more which is i think huge.

00:31:11: yeah i think that's a great point craig because i know we all when we finish vet school enter the real world feel like we're supposed to know everything and A, no one can know everything first off.

00:31:24: But exactly that?

00:31:25: there shouldn't be any fear of clients judging you for admitting what you don't know at your point exactly.

00:31:30: I've felt every time i have ever said to a client let me call someone they are hundred percent fine with it appreciate the yeah actually getting more bang for their buck because they get multiple opinions.

00:31:41: so certainly for young veterinarians call people, like it's fine.

00:31:46: We're happy to take your calls.

00:31:47: Text

00:31:48: me don't call me please!

00:31:50: Yeah I think that has been a change.

00:31:51: certainly i've seen in my career right.

00:31:53: because we didn't have all of the information at our fingertips or in our pockets you know...we had to hide out copy of plumb next to box on back of truck and then go consulted while pretending to prep for tools.

00:32:08: so this idea now not only is okay do not have all of the information at your fingertips or in your head, but it's actually advantageous to show how much you care and that brings value.

00:32:30: How can we get more established practitioners who didn't grow up this way?

00:32:39: I

00:32:40: think i just slowly wear them down.

00:32:42: I'm fairly persistent.

00:32:44: Sure stubbornness of will!

00:32:46: I absolutely love that...I

00:32:49: feel like honestly, Like I've always been fortunate to work with you know veterinarians That weren't afraid To say I don't know and would reach out.. I mean including people who were the ones Who were considered.

00:33:01: You Know Thee gods of the profession and the absolute highest level, they still be like I don't really know.

00:33:07: Let me call somebody

00:33:08: else.".

00:33:09: So i feel like...I'd like to think at least that within our industry most people are pretty comfortable-

00:33:15: I Feel Like People Are Getting Better At As A Whole You Know?

00:33:18: Yeah!

00:33:18: I feel like..i get To Talk To People From All Across The Spectrum Of Ages Within Practice And Honestly I Think Some Of more senior veterinarians are kind of the most excited to talk, too.

00:33:32: Because The reason why they've been practicing for four years is because their learning something every day.

00:33:38: so you know while They might be a little bit Harder shelled than the fresher veterinarian's A lot of those veterinarians Are truly them most excited To learn.

00:33:50: So I think the information Availability can cut both ways Too right?

00:33:55: Because now there's so much Information available And when you do go looking for information and you can't necessarily get it direct from a friend, You have to consult the internet.

00:34:07: Uh...you're confronted with so much junk.

00:34:10: uh..and It can be hard to sift through because even as veterinarians A lot of professional resources that we have aren't gonna contain those answers That were looking for.

00:34:21: How does somebody who kind of grew up with all this information at their fingertips, all the time.

00:34:27: How do they get out there into practice and be able to sift through what's real and not-real in a very momentary decision?

00:34:36: Right there on front of an animal client looking at you... how can we take that world of available information and make decisions?

00:34:43: I think it is a great point!

00:34:44: It is information overload but also As veterinarian students, we learn from the fire hose.

00:34:54: So I think that we are fairly uniquely trained and can absorb a lot of information quickly And kind of sift through it.

00:35:03: But you know when i get stumped It truly is call somebody within your network That can help you and clear up some of this and cut through some of these weeds.

00:35:15: Yeah, we were just having this whole conversation.

00:35:17: that's speaking about you know mentorship and I think sometimes people think That they're supposed to have one mentor.

00:35:22: And that is their you know person.

00:35:25: Nobody just has one mentor.

00:35:26: You may have one Mentor that it kind of work for like life skills.

00:35:30: You know someone else whose business skills?

00:35:33: And then you May Have a variety Of Kind more clinical mentors who you've got?

00:35:38: you know Someone Who's your go-to For medicine cases Somebody for repro, somebody for podiatry whatever it might be.

00:35:45: So I think knowing that its totally fine to reach out different people depending upon the case one of things We probably could do a better job of, you know with our students and young veterinarians is helping them to figure out how to kind critically analyze literature.

00:36:03: So that again your not just reading some random article off the internet thats in some magazine but hopefully looking for more peer-reviewed published literature.

00:36:12: Excellent.

00:36:13: Craig I'm going put on spot here a little bit.

00:36:16: OAPS We've kind of asked about the student perspective a little bit, but as you said there's all these clinics that come in and they're trying to recruit.

00:36:26: They're looking for their next set of interns maybe even their next setup associates.

00:36:31: What do you see practices doing?

00:36:34: That makes them successful at OEPS.

00:36:36: what makes them attractive To those students?

00:36:40: that may be not everyone is aware

00:36:42: Of I think the communication.

00:36:44: You know they are excited practice, they're excited about what they do.

00:36:49: They enjoy their jobs you know?

00:36:51: I think that's really the biggest thing and it's a little tough because everybody who goes to OAPS those are all good practices with good veterinarians And there they believe in equine-practice.

00:37:09: so we'll have long hours if you enjoy your job, the long hours really aren't all that bad when they happen.

00:37:21: And so just the practices are there and they're going above and beyond in their volunteering and teaching students how to ultrasound or teaching them about colic workup.

00:37:35: I think those were the practices that really stand out to students as places.

00:37:42: I'm glad you didn't just say good swag.

00:37:44: Because there is some-

00:37:47: There's a lot of swag.

00:37:49: We have pizza party to put together the swag bags because we need somebody.

00:37:53: volunteers do that!

00:37:56: No, i mean it totally agree like its just enthusiasm for practitioners who come here and the honesty.

00:38:05: You know, it's not a false enthusiasm.

00:38:06: It's not like they're blowing smoke and saying yeah you are only going to work twenty-five hours And your gonna make a million dollars!

00:38:12: No day will ever suck.

00:38:15: They were very honest but also enthusiastic about what their do.

00:38:20: We've talked all recruitment and retention.

00:38:23: Especially when we started having these conversations There was so much finger pointing between universities Saying practices fault practices saying its university fault that, you know, equine has this bad rap and it really everybody just needs to work together.

00:38:41: To make practice a place where students want to go... And coming from the academic side is if your student comes out with you in their truck for one day they might have an extra chip second or third year not an externship, but a opportunity second or third year to get out in equine ambulatory truck.

00:39:06: If you are real grumpy all day and that's the only day that student ever sees equine practice they're probably gonna have bad taste in their mouth.

00:39:17: so again we don't want people lying just students Getting back to just that baseline, you know enthusiasm and honesty for like yeah This is what a day looks like.

00:39:26: And it might be long in it.

00:39:28: You know It may be exhausting But this is why I love it Is really i think would draw students to equine.

00:39:35: one of the things we've asked our speakers to do for OAPS is Address those issues?

00:39:40: You know its.

00:39:41: We don't want to hide them.

00:39:42: They are there they're very real.

00:39:45: but Everybody's done or not everybody?

00:39:48: but A lot of people have done a good job Figuring out how to manage those issues.

00:39:55: You know, so the work-life balance thing you I'm in central Kentucky.

00:39:59: we worked too much here and I Come from.

00:40:04: I would have been a farmer if i didn't do this probably So I would've worked even more If I hadn't become an equine veterinarian.

00:40:11: but How did my manager?

00:40:13: We go on trips once end of days done.

00:40:17: Don't respond to messages.

00:40:19: took clients anymore.

00:40:20: You know my work day is from seven two four and if clients text me after for I Delay texts them back at seven a.m.. And it's wonderful, and it's worked really well for my practice because We've been able to figure out some of these boundaries.

00:40:34: So i think that's one of the.

00:40:35: but in One Of My favorite parts about oeps Is yes we're getting people excited?

00:40:39: We're talking About The Really cool Things But We're not Hiding The Issues Where We're Trying To Address Them With with some good solutions.

00:40:49: And people have been really creative of the solution they had for pretty big issues, so...

00:40:55: Well I think that's key right?

00:40:58: Obviously now we've said multiple times about like the four day work week.

00:41:01: you know twenty years ago if anyone in Equine practice a four-day workweek yeah no versus now thats much more accepted You know, even just things as simple as letting associates and obviously it depends on your staffing.

00:41:16: But figure out like maybe you would rather work from ten a.m to six p.m in terms of your regularly scheduled appointments because dropping the kid off at school in the morning or whatever It might be great Like...you're gonna have some horse owners who love that if they can get their regular appointment schedule later In the day.

00:41:32: I think just that creativity The baseline problems of horses are going to do dumb things and they're usually gonna be at inconvenient hours.

00:41:41: That's never gonna change, but the creativity in the flexibility that practices and practitioners have come up with still meet those needs I think is what really exciting?

00:41:53: Yeah you kind hinted it something i think was very important as we focused on how students next generation veterinarians will change their profession.

00:42:04: The changing demographics of the horse owner are also going to dramatically change medicine and a number of horse owners who don't have the horse in their backyard continues to increase as a percentage.

00:42:17: And they work, They will need after-hours service in different way non-emergency After Hours Service In A Way That Wasn'T Really Relevant To Those Of Us Who Maybe Graduated Earlier.

00:42:30: Well and that's probably could be a niche practice you probably could charge more for is if he said, hey I like to sleep in.

00:42:38: I stay up late.

00:42:39: maybe you do practice from noon two eight or something like that every day and then your available for owners at different hours.

00:42:48: And thats a simple little niche but would actually be very well received by some clients.

00:42:56: Your bottom line will probably reflect that.

00:42:59: Ten years now A group of veterinarians it's just discussing How the profession exists today and how it's gonna be changing with a next generation.

00:43:08: What does it look like ten years from now?

00:43:10: what do you think your real substantive changes

00:43:13: say?

00:43:13: I Think that if they're all sitting in the room together, there still going to be.

00:43:16: You know photos or holograms showed of each other of nasty wounds Good late-night stories being told.

00:43:23: I think that's uh A tale of equine veterinarians throughout time That i really hope never goes away.

00:43:30: Talking to the interns I talked about, they're going be great storytellers as well.

00:43:35: And i do think we are going preserve that relationship with a horse and owner.

00:43:40: Human medicine sometimes seems so cold for me.

00:43:44: That's one of reasons why I love equine medicine.

00:43:48: The fact drive around visit my friends and work on horses in between is really Great way for me.

00:43:58: I know that just sounds over the top, but it's kind of how i see my job Is is you know we get to do really enjoyable things with a Really neat animal and And I think a lot of my clients have become friends because of that?

00:44:16: that sticks around.

00:44:18: I'm so excited for some of the technology has been coming out recently, my job is going to get so much easier.

00:44:23: You're

00:44:24: gonna have like X-ray vision goggles or something?

00:44:27: Well...I am in!

00:44:28: I will wear them all the time.

00:44:30: this'll be great you know but i think it's really important.

00:44:35: we just keep up with times.

00:44:37: ya'know best senior veterinarians are on cutting edge and hope as an industry Stay on the cutting edge.

00:44:47: You know I My my MD is a client of mine, and i have an extra machine.

00:44:53: then they Have it there their clinic.

00:44:55: you know that's wild.

00:44:56: we as equine practitioners We do get to stay up-to-date with so many things And do things That aren't being done in human medicine.

00:45:05: So thats like big hope for me Is just keep pushing and leaning into The technology and advancements out there.

00:45:13: Final thoughts things to pass on to the next generation.

00:45:17: I

00:45:18: would say it's honestly we all have something to learn from everyone Obviously, from our horses and their owners But also again kind of looking at the generations above below around All-of-the-above.

00:45:32: I have an opportunity.

00:45:32: a lot of students ride with me And they're up today on everything because there being taught the latest in the greatest They think I'm sitting there quizzling them about stuff because they need to know these things.

00:45:44: In all reality, I try and figure out what...I don't know!

00:45:47: And along the way if i teach him some thing that's really great too.

00:45:49: but you know we can learn from everyone sometimes not to do somethings But keeping it in mind and not writing stuff off is important.

00:46:03: It has made my career

00:46:07: a lot of fun.

00:46:08: Thank You Both.

00:46:08: Thanks

00:46:10: for listening to Ride Along with Unbridled Access.

00:46:12: Be sure follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, so never miss an episode!